Fact or fict?

In conversation with Greg Jenner, York alumnus and historian for Horrible Histories

gregjennerGreg Jenner is a horrible historian. That is to say, he’s in charge of the historical content of BBC’s Horrible HistoriesAs Vice President of Pedantry – Jenner’s preferred title – he ensures that the BAFTA-winning kid’s comedy is factually accurate. And he’s not that horrible. In fact, he’s a very nice historian. The reader is advised that this is indeed a fact, and no mere “fict”.

Jenner uses the terms “fict” and “fact ATM” (fact at the moment) to sift through the weird and wacky anecdotes he gathers for a series of Horrible Histories sketches to be written. “As a historian,” he says, “I spend my time telling people that we don’t know what the full story is. Then I start telling people amazing ‘facts’. I have to stop and think, ‘is what I’m saying even true?’”

A fict, Jenner explains, is his name for a falsehood that is widely believed to be true. His “favourite” is one apocryphal account of Cleopatra. “You can read on the internet that she used a box full of bees as a sex aid. This is nonsense – the earliest reference comes from about 15 or 20 years ago. But everyone believes it, so it’s become a fict.”

When he’s not in the library, Jenner’s time is spent consulting on Horrible Histories scripts and song lyrics. He’s “basically a teenage boy” when it comes to his musical tastes. “I’m into hard rock – you know, men with beards shouting. Sometimes I’ll try and sneak it into the show. We did a song about the Luddites, and we turned them into a punk band. It’s good fun to see a bit of heavy metal in a kids’ programme.”

Greg (far right) and Horrible Histories cast members
Greg (far right) and Horrible Histories cast members

The show sees Julius Caesar reincarnated as a rapper and Admiral Nelson as a seafaring Sir Alex Ferguson. The decision the Horrible team made to depict these figures outside of their true chronology was one they thought hard about. “It was a philosophical problem,” Jenner says. “The hurdle we had to scramble over was the fact that history is not the same as the past. Caesar did not rap, but what Caesar says has to be historically accurate. That’s where I start being pedantic.”

His job by nature leads to many a debate with fellow historians. Even as I dial him up for our phone interview, I interrupt his latest Twitter argument with historian friend Tom Holland. The topic is Sainsbury’s infamous Christmas advert set in the First World War. Holland criticised the advert for its “commodification of history”, while Jenner, like many people who are not academic historians, enjoyed it. Maybe I’m wrong,” he laughs. “All the other historians are disagreeing with me. I think part of the issue is that I work in TV. When I see something that’s well-made and beautifully shot it wins me over.”

Greg as a Roman.
Greg as a Roman

You could call Greg Jenner a history outsider. Since his undergrad years at the University of York, he’s never been one for convention. He would hand in “stupid essays” to his tutors, which would land him in trouble. “After a while, though, I think my lecturers realised that I wasn’t being silly just for silly’s sake, and that I was looking at comedy with a genuinely critical eye.”

His proposal for a History MA on Monty Python was accepted, but being low on funds he scrapped his original plans for a PhD and left for television the following year. “I see things in much more of a comic light than other historians do,” he says, fondly recounting a childhood education in South Park and The Simpsons.

But he takes due care not to paint his colleagues as fusty cloister-dwellers. “There’s been a key change in the culture of academic history. The ivory tower maybe did exist a few decades ago, but I meet a lot of historians and they’re all fantastic at public engagement.”

Greg as a monk
Greg as a monk

Here Jenner reveals his main agenda: to help make history more accessible to all.He sees something of a paradox in upholding the values of a historian while working in the media. History documentaries tend to “gloss over” any academic dialogue, which could be seen as at least limiting, and at worst undemocratic. “Historians debate among themselves, but that debate should be made more public. There should be a red button feature on programmes that lets you watch a discussion on the history of the period.”

“Some would disagree, but I think the job of the historian is simply to correct people’s thinking and tell them when they’re wrong. Let viewers enjoy Braveheart, but encourage them to read more about William Wallace afterwards. That’s why I’m on Twitter, I love talking to people and answering their questions on the past.”

As for the future, Jenner will soon release his first book, A Million Years in a Day a history of “shitting, pissing, eating, farting, etiquette,” among other things. “The idea was to write a book that wasn’t intimidating, maybe for people who have been put off by history books before.”

You might otherwise find Greg on your TV screen, usually after being roped in for various Horrible Histories cameos. “I’m William the Conqueror’s dancing squire,” he sighs. “Unfortunately, I have a historical face.”